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  1. #1

    Do TCM Practitioners / Acups believe they will ever be referred by the NHS?

    Why are we seemingly constantly looking for approval from the NHS?

    Do TCM Practitioners /Acupuncturists want NHS approval?
    And can a system that is so ignorant of TCM ever give approval?

    Do TCM Practitioners / Acupuncturists want integration with the NHS?
    If so, do they understand the implications of this?

    Or do we simply need an independently protected title?

  2. #2
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    I don't understand why acupuncturists want to work in the NHS. It means nothing. Its not important nor is it well paid. Its a waste of time trying to get acupuncture in the NHS. It limits what acupuncturists can treat and the advice they can give, i.e. dietary advice.

    The BAC has spent money on programs helping acupuncturis to work in the NHS. I hope to stop physios practising acupuncture in the NHS.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmalyon View Post
    Why are we seemingly constantly looking for approval from the NHS?

    Do TCM Practitioners /Acupuncturists want NHS approval?
    And can a system that is so ignorant of TCM ever give approval?

    Do TCM Practitioners / Acupuncturists want integration with the NHS?
    If so, do they understand the implications of this?

    Or do we simply need an independently protected title?
    Hi NM

    What an interesting question and one that will pose an interesting internal dialogue for most of us I think. For me the NHS represents access to conditions we would not normally have a chance to treat and therefore a chance to make a difference to many more peoples lives. It also means we step out of the private health sector too which we also do not fit in very well with as we are not accepted by the likes of Bupa etc anyway.

    I personally find it hard to deal with selling myself and telling people I am great and can treat and cure anything as I know some do and often I find that those who sell themselves well do well but are often not what I would consider good at TCM on the other hand you have people who are passionate and enthusiastic about TCM and are very good at what they do but rarely make a living as they cannot sell themselves well and very rarely there are those that are able to combine the two aspects listed above which is a good thing (I wish I was one of them).

    You are right we do not need NHS approval and you are right again when you say that they are ignorant of our art but I feel it is important for us to find a way in as we could have a positive impact on health should we be given a decent chance i.e. that we are given a level playing field and not given the dead and told that if we can raise them they will accept our abilities.

    Again Attilio makes some good points we would be tied with both hands behind out backs, our feet glued to the floor and blindfolded... so we would not be able to use our full skills anyway... it is a huge shame and a waste of resources in a number of ways from many perspectives in my view.

    I think the most likely result (especially with the current govt attitude) is that the NHS will eventually be diminished to a small husk and the health of the nation will be passed over to the individual with their own private health insurance. In which case THEY will be able to decide where they spend their money and what treatments they want and that is where we will come in because the public are not so into drugs and surgery and we will be able to not only help more people with more varied conditions but also make a living more easily too.

    I guess the short answer to your questions is: we don't need approval, we should not expect or want it really as it will never come for a variety of reasons, an independent protected title sounds very interesting! I like that idea as chiropractors and osteopaths have protected titles so why not us!

    just my musings not sure if they add much to the discussion but hey ho

    Regards

    Snowtiger

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by attilio View Post
    I don't understand why acupuncturists want to work in the NHS. It means nothing. Its not important nor is it well paid. Its a waste of time trying to get acupuncture in the NHS. It limits what acupuncturists can treat and the advice they can give, i.e. dietary advice.

    The BAC has spent money on programs helping acupuncturis to work in the NHS. I hope to stop physios practising acupuncture in the NHS.
    Attilio, I agree wholeheartedly which leads to the questions:

    Why does the head of BAcC seem to be unnaturally driven in that direction?

    Why isn't he pulling in the direction that TCM practitioners / Acupuncturists want and need to be heading in?

    Is it because that's his area of "expertise", his past employment, simply the area he knows?

    I must admit to being surprised at the hoo-ha around that program/workshop to enable Acupuncturists to "join" the NHS recently, when actually it was little more than the passing on of a URL address which was already part of the NHS website for all kinds of private practitioners. Simply, it was something that was already in place! Hardly a triumph!

    And that's without going into how useful it is!!!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmalyon View Post
    I must admit to being surprised at the hoo-ha around that program/workshop to enable Acupuncturists to "join" the NHS recently, when actually it was little more than the passing on of a URL address which was already part of the NHS website for all kinds of private practitioners. Simply, it was something that was already in place! Hardly a triumph!
    If you are correct, then yes, it looks like a lot of hype about nothing.

    I guess you don't like the BAC Nick. Which association are you a member of?

  6. #6
    No, No, No, its not that I don't like BAcC, absolutely not, its simply they are the largest therefore the most to blame for our current state - limbo, disunity, and being eaten alive!

    I have mentioned before that I'm ATCM which sadly are equally culpable for our current state. Perhaps slightly less due to their size.

    Its not about like or dislike - our profession is being slowly devoured whilst our "associations" paddle in circles.

    The TCM Pracs / Acups in this country need to be stirred and woken up.............quickly!!!

    As Rome burns Nick Pahl plays the fiddle.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by attilio View Post
    If you are correct, then yes, it looks like a lot of hype about nothing.
    Just to finish this off Attilio - we know the people who created the 'spin' read this - 6 weeks and no comments to the contrary - it is true.

  8. #8
    Hi I do clinical Chinese acupuncture also Korean hand acupuncture I
    work from my doctors surgery in Stanley co Durham I get referrals from most doctors from my area for acupuncture. I have been now for 7 years my doctors know the results from acupuncture are very good. So some people do work and get great results within the Nhs ?

  9. #9
    [QUOTE=John Lawes;398 So some people do work and get great results within the Nhs ?[/QUOTE]

    Hi John,

    I think the problem is that your situation is a very rare one, it would be fantastic if we all got the same support that you do but in the majority of cases, we are dismissed by the medical profession, for reasons of power and money.

    Gp surgeries and hospitals are paid for every patient they treat, having their own employees do this means they gain funding that they would lose if they referred to us.

  10. #10
    Hi Lisa
    We get paid by the pct this will be changing I think in April or sometime this year and the doctors will pay me
    I work Alongside another acupuncturist who has a contract with the pct they pay her and she pays me
    We have a great thing here and long may it go on
    John

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