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  1. #11
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    I agree with you Feng. I don't use patents in my clinic, haven't for years. I prefer to modify the formula so the patient gets the best formula. Also it's stronger and so work's quicker. But there are a lot of acupuncturists in the UK that use patents and not raw herbs and my original post was about them.

  2. #12
    In U.S.A., the licensed acupuncturist not only should pass the acupuncture exam test, they also should pass the herb treatment exam test, and in California state, all TCM universities not only teach TCM courses, they also have western medicine courses at least 30% inside the TCM courses, and also need to pass the w.m. exam test in the license exam test. So, for our licensed acupuncture practitioners, we can treat almost all kinds of patients even the patients come from M.D..

  3. #13
    Attilio, can you tell me, have all the Chinese herbal patents been banned, or just some fprmulas, or just some companies... eg Langzhou pills, have they banned the importation of dried
    raw crude herbs...

  4. #14
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    Heiko, it's just prepared items, such as patents and some balms, creams. Raw herbs, granules and powders are still allowed, so herbalists can still make up formulas from scratch. In the UK, herbalists are becoming statutory regulated, which is good news all round, but acupuncture won't be statutory regulated, which is a big shame.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by attilio View Post
    Heiko, it's just prepared items, such as patents and some balms, creams. Raw herbs, granules and powders are still allowed, so herbalists can still make up formulas from scratch. In the UK, herbalists are becoming statutory regulated, which is good news all round, but acupuncture won't be statutory regulated, which is a big shame.
    Attilio
    to be honest, in some ways I actually am more in favor of this. The problem we have in New Zealand, the "patents" are available to anyone. The herb companies/shops sell to anyone. Western herb companies market eg "Xiao yao san" to physiopherapists to sell to all their patients for PMT and period pain. Naturopaths sell liu wei di huang wan as an "immune booster".
    And we have acupuncturists with no herbal training or experience just presribing patents as an extra income boosting revenue option. I wish we had that here.

  6. #16
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    Hi Heiko,

    I think banning patents in Europe has it's pros and cons, although i can see doing the same in New Zealand would be of great benefit to traditional herbalists as having physiotherapists give out patents is very naughty, not to mention them doing acupuncture after a short course. Sounds like it's a bit of a mess out there. Is there any proposed legislation going through government to stop this?

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by attilio View Post
    Hi Heiko,

    I think banning patents in Europe has it's pros and cons, although i can see doing the same in New Zealand would be of great benefit to traditional herbalists as having physiotherapists give out patents is very naughty, not to mention them doing acupuncture after a short course. Sounds like it's a bit of a mess out there. Is there any proposed legislation going through government to stop this?
    Attilio
    can you confirm, have all patents been banned, eg Giovanni pilss, or just some eg from Lanzhou

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heiko Lade View Post
    Can you confirm, have all patents been banned, eg Giovanni pilss, or just some eg from Lanzhou
    Heiko,

    Yes, ALL patents are now banned, no matter who makes them. It's an overall ban due to the lettering of the law and how a herbalist can work within the law, rather than how the patents are made or sold.

  9. #19
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    I have to admit that in my early years of practice I thought patents were comparable to 'over the counter' medicines. My understanding from my fellow members of the North Carolina Licensing Board is that this is at least too simplistic. My understanding of the UK situation from the B.Ac.C. news is that there are separate categories of acupuncture and Chinese Herbal medicine. The latter is going to be regulated by the Government, and the use of patents will not be permitted to acupuncturists if they do not belong to the herbal register. The need for standards of training specific to herbs (including patents) seems to be recognized here also but historically there is not such a clear division of acupuncture and herbal practice and this is complicating matters.

  10. #20
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    Hi Attilio

    I agree we have been reduced to almost just acupuncturists. The issue with using the raw herbs is always cost and most problematic compliance. I see there being two ways around this issue;
    1. a reclassification of these herbal formulas as food supplements with no health claims made upon them this would make them all legal again instantly.
    2. Western Herbalists use tinctures and a number of our herbs are included in these tincture lists we are already able to make up a number of herb formulas using these tinctures. The cost is more reasonable and the amount that would need to be taken to achieve good results less so compliance is more likely.

    If the herbal companies make tinctures of all our herbs we would be back to making herbal formulas that can make a real difference to patients health and our ability to treat them too.

    Unfortunately I see this recent change in the law down to a number of things;
    1. The sometimes ludicrous claims made by irresponsible therapists and companies regarding TCM.

    2. The inclusion by some TCM production companies of western drugs in the herbal products which have lead to prosecutions over here and the recent incarceration of a Chinese TCM therapist for the health consequences on a patient following administration (they nearly died).

    3.The overwhelming power of the pharmaceutical companies in Europe who have a strangle hold on pretty much everything!. They have a huge lobbying group that has pretty much got European politicians where they want them...

    we are screwed!

    Regards
    Snowtiger
    Last edited by Snowtiger; 08-11-2012 at 18:56.

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